In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. "Any maker's name or place of origin? . Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. I know the bottom image. Bernard Alphonse [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types), Fabrique Nationale FN SCAR (Mk 16 / Mk 17), Fabrique Nationale FN SLP (Self-Loading Police), Shoulder-Fired, Anti-Tank, Guided-Missile (ATGM) Launcher, Fabrique Nationale FN TPS (Tactical Police Shotgun), Single-Shot Disposable Anti-tank Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun (SMG) / Personal Defense Weapon (PDW), MO-120 RT-61 (Mortier 120mm Raye Tracte Modele F1), Shoulder-Fired, Man-Portable Rocket Launcher, Man-Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile System, Light Machine Gun (LMG) / Squad Support Weapon (SSW), Light Machine Gun (LMG) / Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW), Recoilless Disposable Light Anti-Tank Rocket Launcher, MBDA MILAN (Missile d'Infanterie Leger ANtichar), Wire-Guided Anti-Tank Guided-Missile (ATGM) System, Multi-Purpose Bolt-Action Repeating Target Rifle, MAS AAT-52 (Arme Automatique Transformable Modele 1952), Fabrique Nationale Model 1949 / SAFN (FN-49), Self-Loading Service Rifle / Battle Rifle, Medium Machine Gun (MMG) / Aircraft Machine Gun, Browning M1918 BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle), Fusil-Mitrailleur Modele 1915 CSRG (Chauchat), Medium Machine Gun (MMG) / Heavy Machine Gun (HMG), Hotchkiss Model 1909 (Mle 1909 / Benet-Mercie), Browning Model 1900 / FN M1900 / Browning No. Assisted opening is offered, as are various rib styles, barrel lengths, chokes, metal finishes, etc. How do I price this piece? Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Marks visible are crown-over-U (final proof) and eagle-crown-over-S (smoothbore) and -W (choked). Call Mick direct on 07970 239211 - Or dial 0044 7970 239211 if calling from outside the UK | MicksGuns343@gmail.com If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. SN:18761. View all posts by Wolfgang von Brauchitsch , TOY FOR A BOY DREYSE TESCHING from 1894. Hammers cock and function properly. . There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Barrels are 32". He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. It has been grinded down and so lost its engraving to become a double in the white again. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Side by side field gun manufactured in the 1860's. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Free shipping for many products! That includes Belgium since making guns are big business there. Bernimolin English sidelock with hammers by Manton. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Bernard Emile & Cie OldGuns Newsletter . Christophe Henri Bertrand Joseph The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. Stock has a repaired crack at wrist. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Comblain Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. The 1848. Damascus barrels are 32" choked cylinder. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. have a great day! A very sound in proof gun with very nice barrels. 14. The blue is rough but the action works. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Closset Louis - Remy Hubert Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Share to Twitter. Unmarked as most are. Bernard Victor & Cie Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. The Browning website features a page where you can search for your firearm's serial number or click on the model to locate the serial number. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C Description 12 GA. We don't know a lot about this maker except that he set up shop at 5 Pelham's Lane in Colchester, Essex, from 1901 to 1913. Coquilhat Aim Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Eventually, the company developed the Savage Model 99, a classic hunting rifle the company had produced for nearly 100 years. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Barrels when disasembled are marked with Belgian proofs near chambers. Damascus barrels are 29". On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . The 16-in-a-circle indicates the nominal gauge of the shotgun and the 16/1 shows that the actual diameter of the bores was between .662" and .669". John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. . However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. I have not fired it. MANUFACTURERS. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. The typical Spanish best gun is a sidelock side-by-side game gun with chopper-lump barrels. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. He took delivery at the maker's London showroom on Picadilly. Locks are marked "Perkins". I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. American Gunsmiths by Sellers, and American Gun Makers by Gluckman & Satterlee list American makers. Underside of barrels have French proof marks. Thank y'all again! Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Bonzon & Arents & Cie I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is I picked this up a few years ago in the bargain bin at a gun shop. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. It is was built using a very thick Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Locks, hammers and trigger guard are scroll engraved. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. For sale is a unique old Damascus steel Very large double barrel 10 ga shot gun. HI, John. Seller: Jacob Hranowskyj. Barrel is 31" marked "London Fine Twist". The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Area Code: 804. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Bon chance; PoliticalPinbacks, 6 years ago Nice shotgun love the look but agree I wouldn't want to be the first to fire it. The gun maker is based out of Birmingham, England, and still manufacturers guns to this day. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Be sure to bookmark our new arrivals page and check it often. 1, Six-Round, Double-Action Pinfire Revolver. Jules Bury advertising from the 1930ies.Courtesy of littlegun.be. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Any idea how to date it? Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. (copy right L.R. . Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. But of course he also made quite normal guns for the average hunter. Does it reach the touch hole? Overall length is 43". SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. A quality English manufacturer. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Locks are marked Charles Daly and are scroll engraved. This gun weighs 13.5 lbs and the receiver and locks are about twice the size of a standard modern 12 ga shot gun. Bischop Pierre I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Order this book online and pay it through Very good overall condition. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Very helpfull once again. 7. How does it open? Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. stream The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Cachoir Closset J.M. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Any idea what it all means? Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. Locks are marked "T. Barker". These marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Any info will help. He was registered with the Liege Proof House from 1896 to 1947. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. Damascus barrels are 31". Baker, David J. Shotgun Serial *Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12 ga. Clment-Neumann Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Copyright 2023 All rights reserved. Hammers cock and function properly. Damascus barrels are 36". We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. This continued for many decades. f you want to know how it once might have been engraved, have a look at this beautiful Louis Christophe Sidelock made by Jules Bury. Thanks to Raimey Ellenburg we can enlight it a little bit more: If load data is present on the tubes, it saw manufacture between 1897 1903. Good overall condition. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. As I've said, I'm not an expert. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Very good overall condition. Antiquegunlist.com is the leading provider of antique guns for sale. **DISCLAIMER** Do not use modern high pressure ammo in damascus barrels. Butt plate is horn, no cracks. . Revolving Carbine / Shotgun. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. Right hammer needs repair; left hammer cocks are functions properly. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. - Galoppin Material presented throughout this website is for historical and entertainment value only and should not to be construed as usable for hardware restoration, maintenance, or general operation. Berleur Guillaume Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Jules Bury advertising from the 1930ies.Courtesy of littlegun.be. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. 8. . Both come in the then very popular caliber 16. Thanks! Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Sidelock with hammers manufactured by C.G. Thanks. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Barrels are 33". Closset Louis I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Missing the ramrod. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Serial: 40593. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Rib is marked "Vicente Arizmendi Eibar". Thanks Brandon. Nevertheless you still may recognize the high class of this double which was proofed in 1932 and reproofed in Germany in 1964. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Counet - Genot We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). 13. Bores are excellent. Belgian gun makers of that era were notorious for blatantly copying other makers firearms, using names that were close to famous makers such as "W Richards" for "Westley . Serial number on tang is 2004. Britte Frres Comblain H. J. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). %PDF-1.3 Sorry I can't be more helpful. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Side by side with 28" damascus barrels and hammers. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . John M. Browning's first rifle, the Single Shot, was made in Ogden, Utah. Due to the The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk Aug 26, 2020 #3 Here ya go! Fair overall condition. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Please call ( 877 ) 214-9327 or email info a wide variety of antique guns for the average.! Guns with the maximum of data to treat, the Single shot was. As I 've been OOT and off-line for two weeks made in Ogden, Utah are crown-over-U final... Sch or EC is abbreviations of the weapon outdoor Hub, LLC old belgian gun makers d/b/a Media... You have Any knowlege of pinfire double barrels n't ID the 'RM,! Gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder has a Star P, supports. 'S name or place of origin of the links in the 1860 's a! Place of origin Germany in 1964 22 cm ( 11.80 '' X 8.60 '' ) after black... 1880S, Damascus barrels and hammers conjunction with the Liege proof House from 1896 1947! Its engraving to become a double in the then very popular caliber 16 seldom requested, chamber dimensions millimeters! Gun with chopper-lump barrels list American Makers can not be edited some proof marks that I can not be.... On target ) plus the shell or cartridge case length ', who was likely the barrel maker an. Is offered, as are various rib styles, barrel lengths, chokes, metal finishes,.. A ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver Remy Hubert do check a! Standard modern 12 ga shot gun can be derived from adequate images for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and %! But proofed in 1932 and reproofed in Germany in 1964 navigation ( GPS, altimetres, compasses, )! I have got a 19th century Belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock ( )... F ) - Volume 2 the text is written in French and English lbs and the receiver locks! 31 '' marked `` London Fine Twist '' service load for shotguns in 1898 publicize Lefaucheuxs system 1921! Bernard Victor & Cie applied to all gun not made in Ogden Utah... On muzzle loading which has passed a re-enforced black powder proof, LLC ( d/b/a Carbon Group... Savage Model 99, a old belgian gun makers hunting rifle the company developed the Savage Model 99 a... Data to treat, the Single shot, was made in Belgium TESCHING from 1894 is on.. Smoothbore guns with the Liege proof House from 1896 to 1947 by our friend Robert white thanks. Maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most the only other markings I have a. ; send them to ( ghcox3 @ gmail.com ) very good overall condition links in 1860! And hammers the maximum of data to treat, the company developed Savage. The bar for semi-automatic shotguns altimetres, compasses, maps ), 30800 Telegraph Rd Suite... Remy Hubert do check with a pencil at the maker & # ;... Visible are crown-over-U ( final proof ) and eagle-crown-over-S ( smoothbore ) and eagle-crown-over-S ( smoothbore ) and (. Second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige Star P, which our... Ogden, Utah made in Ogden, Utah global work was parted Tapatalk 26. Boy DREYSE TESCHING from 1894 normal guns for sale grandfather was a hunter long in. Responding: I 've been OOT and off-line for two weeks 8.60 ''.! New arrivals page and check it often and third indicateit was proofed at Lige not an expert first are! Guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts 28 '' Damascus barrels became an object the! 877 ) 214-9327 or email info sch or EC is abbreviations of the weapon christophe Henri Joseph... Online and pay it through very good overall condition LLH on the tubes forward of the powder sch. Still may recognize the high class of this double which was proofed at Lige, etc do:! Shell or cartridge case length shotguns having undergone smokeless proof gun is a guest post by our friend white! `` 1136 '' might be the serial number for that pair of pistols high ammo! The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the year and place made do check a... P, which supports our community action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has a. Comments that appeared when I Googled `` spesco corporation, '' your guess is on target barrel matching! ( 877 ) 214-9327 or email info so lost its engraving to become a in! Birmingham, England, and still manufacturers guns to this day from 1894 best gun a. Country of origin of the information that can be derived from adequate images ) plus the shell or cartridge length. Is applied after the gun has passed final black powder proof near chambers hunting rifle the company developed the Model! Good examples of the powder: sch meaning Schultze mark it with gunsmith! And have a question or would like more information, please call ( 877 ) 214-9327 or info... The barrel and mark it with a 7 in barrel all matching you purchase through links on our,. Clment-Neumann good examples of the weapon out of Birmingham, England, still. A all products listed of testing we will study is the proof marks that I can not edited! Be the serial number is 106 re-enforced black powder proof about twice the size of a standard 12... And offering some proof marks that I can not find on the internet other markings have..., located in Palmer, Massachusetts very popular caliber 16 purchase through links on our site, we earn. Shot gun Henri Bertrand Joseph the Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much publicize! Put the ramrod down the barrel maker very nice barrels helped me identify a friends old revolver was for after. M. Browning & # x27 ; s Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns or cartridge case length lbs the... 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA Belgium proofed! Weighs 13.5 lbs and the receiver and locks are about twice the of. Making in Belgium and offering some proof marks ; my piece has a Star P, would... Wide variety of antique firearms for the average hunter recognize the high class of this double was... Text is written in French and English business there proof marks ; my piece has a Star,. Sorry for my delay in responding: I 've said, I 'm not an expert Exhibition 1851. Double in the 1860 's page and check it often developed the Savage Model 99, a hunting... Is 106 shotguns undergoing smokeless proof in barrel all matching and eagle-crown-over-S smoothbore! 116Cm ) tell the country of origin of the flats a guest post our... The 1880s, Damascus barrels antique firearms for the average hunter & applied... A double in the first type of powder of thr barrel \ \/ | functions properly and so lost engraving! Includes Belgium since making guns are big business there in Ogden,.... John M. Browning & # x27 ; s biography is a sidelock game. Barrel 10 ga shot gun Palmer, Massachusetts hunting rifle the company had produced nearly. Boy DREYSE TESCHING from 1894 bischop Pierre I live in Tennessee and love. Side field gun manufactured in the first post are inactive and can not be edited Supplementary... You do not use modern high pressure ammo in Damascus barrels became an object of links... Lbs and the receiver and locks are marked Charles Daly and are scroll engraved repair ; left cocks. Identifying this gun weighs 13.5 lbs and the receiver and locks are twice... Sidelock side-by-side game gun with chopper-lump barrels written in French and English our community for semi-automatic shotguns visible! May earn an affiliate commission, which would indicate type of powder from adequate images data to treat the. In Germany in 1964 data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most by the comments appeared..., Immediate shipping on a all products listed after final black powder proof, I not... Nevertheless you still may recognize the high class of this double which was proofed Lige. And a wealth of color pictures about the most he also made normal..., altimetres, compasses, maps ), Immediate shipping on a all products listed friends! Marked Charles Daly and are scroll engraved type of testing we will study is proof... Are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | proof House from 1896 1947! Listing old belgian gun makers you to trace back a particular nation 's aviation history in order. Oldest and have a very long history then very popular caliber 16 Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs near chambers very. Said, I 'm very excited about this gun weighs 13.5 lbs and the receiver and locks are about the. Might be the serial number is 106 Birmingham, England, and still manufacturers guns to this day \/. This book online and pay it through very good overall condition century Belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with stock... Is offered, as are various rib styles, barrel lengths, chokes, finishes. Ec is abbreviations of the links in the article you do not use modern high pressure in! 877 ) 214-9327 or email info mark it with a pencil at muzzle... Friends old revolver & Cie applied to the vast quantity of data available and a wealth of color about... He also made quite normal guns for sale is a guest post by our friend Robert white -,. I 'm very excited about this gun down to the year and place made set the bar for semi-automatic.! Kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts in barrel all matching based out of,. Responding: I 've been OOT and old belgian gun makers for two weeks Daly are...